Tuesday, March 4, 2008

knowledge versus knowledge

Today is a fairly easy day...i will tell you why...its a day when bosses are not around....so I thought I should do something that pleases my sensibility....a thought that has been on my mind in the past few years and has come to the forefront....it is the question of education in India....no not India but education, the context just happens to be Indian....so i was sitting in a seminar the other day...a room filled with economists, bankers, social workers...and the presenter asks what was a fairly simple question....how many of you have read Marx??....minority few raised their hands....my eyes only roved to the economists from my institution...not one of them had their hands raised....i was suspicious...is this a devious plan of a lazy student or a problem...so i ask my roomy...didn't you guys do Marx in your course...in the negative came the reply...this, let me say, is an institute that mints eminent economists in the country and the students have not read Marx...yes there are articles of Marx at under-grad level....now this is appalling!!! no its not about economics or Marx...its about how water tight compartments our education streams have become...the designing of courses....its about preferential discourse that regards certain kind of education as superior than others....so in school....science was the way to go....engineering the first preference...followed by a minor class of medicine aspirants...teachers and parents molded the children this way from childhood....so people who flunked or scored badly left the premises for economics or finance...no one ever heard of arts....no alternative choices were even displayed to students to broadly choose from...and surprisingly all those poor performing students who left premises and joined other schools and other streams of education topped their class....



I went through my course thinking...this is crap...i am left-leaning closet Marxist...who complain about the “market phenomenon” not really knowing what that meant....we did a bit of capitalistic theories but did not really pay attention....today i sit in a room with people who have passed out of ace institutions in subjects most evidently considered superior to my stream....and they don't know Marx!....how does an average student with all that course work, swamped in a million tests and personal dilemma ever look at the immense genres of “other” books in the library...at the same time, it is not like we are absolutist or paranoid.....we are a mixed economy with a vibrant left-wing (crappy as they maybe).... how is it that in a mixed economy like ours students are not taught theories of both sides so that they make a wise choice for themselves...its not about socialism or capitalism...Marx or Smith...its about choices within a choice you have made....how does a student make a wise choice to follow the market or work for the rights of the proletariat if everything is left upon the student to undertake....i thought about this...i guess educational system that is currently catering to or rather aimed at creating professionals cannot cater to broader educational topics....like tell a scientist what it means to be a sociologist...wary attempts are made in esteemed institutions....say IIT...but everyone knows its a joke....but in a rush to specialise...in a rush to professionalise we are missing on what a educationalist might call “holistic”.....even worse systems, be as it may....i know for a fact that in a campus like ours that had three streams of social science...one stream couldn't stand the sight of the other....except for a few odd balls...there is a tight compartmentalisation of the jhola carrying cigarette smoking, free-thinking (or so they think!), class bunking lot and the pouring-into-my-books, well dressed, hyper tensed, book fearing corporate aiming lot....they were mutual jokes but not once have there been real efforts at putting two and two together....why not create a porous circle devoid of exclusivity...why not share your strengths with ours....not even office going people often cater to a mixed disciplinary approach...well i don't blame them...people will rip each other and the building off....so at the end of the day why not try creating individuals who at least attempt at understanding the thoughts of the other....simple listening is so hard to muster.....


My school friends ask me...so what are you doing...psychology? Or sometimes it is “whatever that you are doing”......No bugger its philosophy and then sociology...all of them are different streams...but then i realise i make the same mistake...so what are you doing...engineering of course?! Mechanical....no bugger computer science...electronics and communication...its all the same...in the end you are all engineers...yes, but is that right? Do they all value the same, add the same value.....no....i am not paying attention!! Why are we all such well-trained excluders....forget gay rights or transvestite right if education itself is so uptight!!!....is it the system...is it dominant discourse of exclusivity...or is it simply lack of sensitivity....no breathing space for the other..why do we study....to be better people...to earn 5-6 digit salaries....we need to figure this out sooner or later...there is so much information....flakily translated as knowledge...still every time an economist needs an analysis on social impact, they need a new methodology....why not just ask the sociologist? Naah they are too flaky, too qualitative we need numbers....ask the sociologist to quantify their social impact....they rack their brains...we don't know that kinda math...ok why not just ask the economist....no they are numb number crunchers....why this compartmentalisation....who is to blame for it...you, me...or some superior system or some devious politician....or maybe its Bush!!!

14 comments:

Anonymous said...

in my defense,i did ask u to enliten me on the diff btwn philosophy and sociology... :(

Anonymous said...

haha...won't say you didn't, maybe i didn't know how to explain it to you..

Unknown said...

right and left of center, you mean the right thing. courses may be well charted out in some institutes, this is more of an exception though. often,'landing' up in a course is what we hear of, and it would well be the next 'best' option to the first, which went begging...
and when did you read marx?! marx is in excess here. some fellas in the circle here re circulating a hypothesis that the skull of hamlet's pop was on the table when marx wrote das capital. hehe!
i'm yet to read hamlet and marx.

Anonymous said...

FYI, of course we did Marx in our Eco course. Most of the Systems paper was on Marx and there were couple of direct readings..
Your roomie talks craps

katturumbu said...

the point Mr. joppan And Ms. anonymous is missed when you go on and on about marx!!!its not about whether or not you have read marx...its about educational systems...oh god my point is completely missed!!

butMr. Joppan, you have a point there...about landing up in courses...

katturumbu said...

my roomie, Ms. Anonymous does not talk crap...in which social system did you read Marx's works?

Anonymous said...

hey..i'm not sure if i got the point, but i would just like to say that where I do agree alot of subjects are compartmentalised in our current education system, i think that is fast fading now.The lines between different subjects are getting blurred to a large extent.More than we realise.
There are such things as neuro economics (im no expert, but its something to do with studying the impulses in your brain as they react to different economic stimuli), or even antroplogy.....(again im not an expert) which lends itself to biology and other sciences.

Anyway apart from all this.....i would also like to say that i agree with Ms.Anon above, your rommie talks crap!

Anonymous said...

First of all, I am offended that you attribute comments I leave to some other person.
Secondly, your roomie does talk crap.
Thirdly, Systems is a paper we had in our III year, Economic Systems, to be precise. And it had Marx readings.

And FYI, if you invite me to read your blog and then attribute MY comments to other people , I shall be forced to become a troll and leave you nasty comments.
Effin cannibal ant, it seems.....
Thats a taste of it.
Acknowledge ME. ME ME ME

Anonymous said...

hey miss katty

in my defense I did tell you about the paper called economic systems and how we did do marx indirectly.

I feel attacked.

yr roomie in distress

katturumbu said...

i definitely underestimated the strength of my commentors....i will not attribute your comments to others if i only knew it was you....all i tried to say in my blog is that we are increasingly manufactured to be esoteric in a single field that our inquisitiveness for something that is removed from our field of interest is removed from our minds...

Also in a particular subject itself, sometimes the onus is upon the student to read up on the various theories that developed the field...but at the same time you are swamped in course work and made to believe that certain stream is superior that you forget to llok at its origins...i don't know if that is good or bad...maybe its a good thing...people are well oriented with the paradigms given and donot waste time questioning it...but at a personal level...an average human being's inquisitiveness is swamped...i donot know what neuro economics entail...even at a basic level...i can only intuit on the meaning of the two words and try creating a coherent meaning...neither do you...why aren't all of us questioning our system a little more...

i know of students in all courses..who take the opposite direction...not that this is something superb...but why is it that only a few do that...why can't people be given ample time to fix their perspectives...to support capitalism but know what marx was saying in its entirety...or support active communism but also know what market is...our over perspectives are being shunned...

look at you, for example, just because i wrote in my blog that my roomie made this statement...you blindly believe me...was i lying to make a blog...did you check that...she did say about your course on social systems...but it didn't have extended works of marx in it...thats all she said...do not blindly believe what you see.

look at me...i depended on my past experiences to guage who this anonymous reader might be....as it turns out...i am wrong...if i am not...i don't know....why do we resign so well into our realities

katturumbu said...

roomie or not...do not...i repeat...do not call me MISS. KATTY...its an insult in my paradigm...you can call me...MISS. TIGRESS...if you prefer the cat family or MISS. LIONESS...if you prefer the dog family

Anonymous said...

We resign ourselves to our realities because thats all we've got. The biggest sceptic could say that even seeing is not believeing...because he would question the reality that is his sight!
Besides i think there are alot of people asking alot of questions, maybe not the the extent that YOU would like.But as long as you are...why should you worry about them?
Anyway, i still think your roomie talks crap (whether you lied about it or not).

katturumbu said...

Ms. Anonymous, good to hear from you again...first and foremost....its high time you sort issues with my roomie...i dono show of the colour of your underclothes or whatever, you should make up.

Secondly, resignation is fine, if you are perfectly comfortable with it. I won't question resignation, or belief in postivism....99% of the world believes in these two...but in case you belong to the school of doubt (considering the number of question you ask about the simplest statement, i assumed you are one of them) then there is a need to go beyond resignation.

I am not saying edu systems are entirely bad...it has its internal logic for moving in a particular direction...all i am posing is a general question as to why it is increasingly esoteric...and why these esoteric gentlemen and ladies refuse to listen to one another

katturumbu said...

i was listening to this song when i was reading your comment....i think it makes sense...so here it goes...give you a glimpse on reality

"Crazy"

I remember when, I remember, I remember when I lost my mind
There was something so pleasant about that place.
Even your emotions had an echo
In so much space

And when you're out there
Without care,
Yeah, I was out of touch
But it wasn't because I didn't know enough
I just knew too much

Does that make me crazy?
Does that make me crazy?
Does that make me crazy?
Possibly [radio version]
probably [album version]

And I hope that you are having the time of your life
But think twice, that's my only advice

Come on now, who do you, who do you, who do you, who do you think you are,
Ha ha ha bless your soul
You really think you're in control

Well, I think you're crazy
I think you're crazy
I think you're crazy
Just like me

My heroes had the heart to lose their lives out on a limb
And all I remember is thinking, I want to be like them
Ever since I was little, ever since I was little it looked like fun
And it's no coincidence I've come
And I can die when I'm done

Maybe I'm crazy
Maybe you're crazy
Maybe we're crazy
Probably

Uh, uh
hee hee